IE6 End of Life at Rockettheme
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- John Hodgkinson
- Hero Rocketeer
- Posts: 421
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- Retired, but build and run websites for organisations of school leaders and others - e.g. http://www.icponline.org, http://www.aspa.asn.au, http://www.appa.asn.au
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While I accept that there are standards for most things, there are very few world-wide standards. Examples: (1) The USA has not yet accepted the metric measuring system; a large number of other countries have done so; and some have both, confusingly. (2) Even in small things such as where is Floor 1 in lifts in buildings (called 'elevators' in some countries - no standard terminology there, either), there is no world-wide standard - some start with a G for Ground Floor, while others start with a 1 for 1st floor. (3) I suspect that other browser companies have not entirely accepted that there is a world-wide standard for the internet, as browsers such as Safari do not always display a website in the same way that FF does (judging by some of the threads in these forums).
So while I would love to disregard the existence of IE6, while there are still many countries in the grip of the GFC, money will not be spent on things like time for techs to do browser upgrades in preference to things that might return a profit to the organisation.
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- The Wingman
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1208
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John Hodgkinson wrote:
While I accept that there are standards for most things, there are very few world-wide standards. Examples: (1) The USA has not yet accepted the metric measuring system; a large number of other countries have done so; and some have both, confusingly. (2) Even in small things such as where is Floor 1 in lifts in buildings (called 'elevators' in some countries - no standard terminology there, either), there is no world-wide standard - some start with a G for Ground Floor, while others start with a 1 for 1st floor. (3) I suspect that other browser companies have not entirely accepted that there is a world-wide standard for the internet, as browsers such as Safari do not always display a website in the same way that FF does (judging by some of the threads in these forums).
So while I would love to disregard the existence of IE6, while there are still many countries in the grip of the GFC, money will not be spent on things like time for techs to do browser upgrades in preference to things that might return a profit to the organization.
I fully agree with you on that not everything is standardized. But in the case of vital importance - trade, commerce, military, medical, science and the list goes on - I say different and fight for them.
Now here is just a short list of world wide standards.
Medical - all those machines that we use - Metrology and Calibration (call up any hospital or manufacture and ask who Cals their equipment).
Auto industry - again, parts made all over the world due to Metrology and Calibration, then those cars are assembled with part from around the world and they fit perfect together (call up any car manufacture and ask who Cals their equipment).
Tools, architect, chemical, food, farming, livestock, transportation, weight, space, military and the list goes on are all traceable back to Metrology which is a world wide organization. Every country who has adopted Metrology has come out of the third world status - due to its direct effect on their economy. There are labs, which I have worked for (all the way to NBS here in America - You don't get any higher in America than that), placed all over the world with government agreements to share and work together to maintain standards has created universal standard of measurement. You pump gas in America - you will see a certificate of calibration, when you get your heart checked - you want that meter that says what you heart rate is to be correct and again so much more attributable to Metrology.
Lack of standards cost money and attribute to failure - which is what you are talking about when you say "So while I would love to disregard the existence of IE6, while there are still many countries in the grip of the GFC, money will not be spent on things like time for techs to do browser upgrades in preference to things that might return a profit to the organization."
That is a foolish attitude of businesses who are blind to the fact that it is costing them more than they know by not maintaining standards - they lost before they began and they are paying the price of failure. This is no reflection on you as a developer, nor on any developer - this is flat out failure on their part. I have no sympathy for them. Especially when it comes down to pure laziness and ignorance on most parts, rather than - that they really can't upgrade.
Every single country that has adopted Metrology has broken away from being 3rd world or very darn close. If some company in a third world just ups and decides to make cars and sell them around the world with no standards at all - they will fail to produce any mass amount of cars and no one would buy them cause the parts don't fit and they don't run that well. Bubbatronics and Bubbarigamobile just don't work in the real world of standards. The ones that maintain the highest standards - wins! Look at the success of the Japanese auto makers back in the 80's and 90's and early 2000's. They chose to maintain high standards using Metrology.
You think those jets fly or the rockets fly because of pure skill? Yes, that matters, but if it were not for standards - the advancements will not come at all or be repeatable across the globe.
Also, because of Metrology - I can down to the mico inch or millimeter measure in both metric and the US standard of measurement. The differences are meaningless to me when they are maintained via Metrology. They have what is called "Gage Blocks" in Metrology - they are so precise and smooth that when you take a one inch block and ring it together with a two inch block -
- One, they become one - literally. The surface is that smooth that they bond together and if you don't un-ring them after a short while - it sucks.
- Two, I can measure down to 0.005 or more (it's been awhile, so I am talking out my ass on the accuracy and it depends on the type of the block LOL)
- Three, they are available in different standards of measurement Metric or US or whatever, but they are still the same and can be converted.
So, when it comes to metrics - I can convert a reading with accuracy. So, the Metrics and US standards of measurements are an illusion. Meaning we can add 50 different types of measurement, but as long as they are maintained by universal standards of Metrology - they are all the same.
My favorite standard that is blatantly in everyone's life and effects them daily is UPCs. That barcode is on everything...and once we as many Nations accepted that as the standard - look at our ability to trade now. Of course it is so mundane and meaningless to most people. Probably less than peoples awareness of the importance of a good browser. Yet, it has freed us as a society to conduct mass amounts of trade and bring products around the world that other wise would not be available without the UPC Barcode tool.
"If there is a food poising scare - they can track it right down to the box and shelf, because of the UPC Barcode Standards."
Again, that is a standard that has gone on to effect other areas that were unforeseen. UPC has now revolutionized the medical field. Not only is equipment (which is really, really, really, really important), medicines and more tracked, now, patients are tracked with it and meds cannot be dispensed with out scanning the barcode to insure everything is correct...this also, goes for surgery and much more. So, people get better care at a hospital. Also, barcodes are being placed at tourist, contracting and more sites so that people can scan it with their cell phones to learn more about that location. Again, this all falls under the acceptance of standards.
Anyone who says it cost to much to "Upgrade" their browser - is "Well, I am not going to say it", but I know where the money is at and it is not in Bubba Standard Land. It is a complete lie and falsity to believe that there is any benefit by using out date and un-standardized anything, when it comes to business. The hidden cost our just to high and unjustified. Well, that is what these businesses who cling to IE6 are learning.
I may come off sounding harsh, but my experience in business and real world applications tells me otherwise, plus, I have whole histories I can show you where standards made the world better and more profitable and where lack of standards cost more and made the world worse. So, any excuse that it cost to much - well, doesn't sound believable and reasonable to me - just sounds like a bunch of misinformed individuals who have way to many hidden cost than they can deal with.
I am going to apologize in advance if I sound like a ass, cause trust me - I want people to succeed and people to have better lives and since I've seen what standards can do...I am a hard ass about them being in place and followed by the people who matter most - "us" the developers, are one of them, we must set the example for others to follow. Period.
Peace Out,
Wingman
P.S. Sorry, I like to rant lol. - Last Edit: 14 years 10 months ago by The Wingman.
- "You can learn a lot from a dummy. So, pay attention to yourself." Quote by me.
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- prim
- Preeminent Rocketeer
- Posts: 17290
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Speaking of standards, this is pure madness:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
And why doesn't all railroad tracks have the same width? And why don't we all drive on the right side of the road?
- Please reply with a direct link to the issue & create a new thread for each new issue.
A template is only as good as the content that goes into it
- DanG
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- The Wingman
- Elite Rocketeer
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prim wrote:
Speaking of standards, this is pure madness: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
And why doesn't all railroad tracks have the same width? And why don't we all drive on the right side of the road?
The fact that we are still using keyboards designed off of an antiquated mechanical typewriter doesn't say much either. The letter keys were mixed up to slow you down so that you wouldn't type to fast and jam the mechanism.
So, it's like this as to more times than not why we do things the way we do -
They were doing a study and they noticed that a woman would always cut off the ends of her roast before putting it in the oven. When asked why she did it - "Well, my mom always did it."
So, they went to her mom and asked why she did it and she said - "Well, my mom always did it."
So, they finally went to the grandma and asked her why she cut the perfectly good ends of the roast off before cooking and she said - "Pan was to small."
Peace Out,
Wingman - "You can learn a lot from a dummy. So, pay attention to yourself." Quote by me.
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- The Wingman
- Elite Rocketeer
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prim, JEM - you guys are mocking me!
I am not playing with you guys anymore. LMAO
- "You can learn a lot from a dummy. So, pay attention to yourself." Quote by me.
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- fireman
- Sr. Rocketeer
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Well...well now... There are some valid points that have been made.
The truth is there will always be those who are "slow to adopt". That's nothing new. Even when an upgrade is free like IE7 or IE8, and even when there are much better alternatives like firefox, chrome, safari, etc., people are slow to change. When the telegraph was invented and perfected there were some who simply refused to stop using the pony express... at least not until the pony express went away. Likewise when "old things go away" people have to move on to the "new things". Take the steam engine vs internal combustion engine; hourglasses vs wristwatches; 10 pound "bag phones" vs iphones; mambo vs joomla! (oooowwe sorry bout that one). With that said here are 2 plausible thoughts that may help in understanding.
First:
The real truth is that RT is doing what it needs to do business-wise from a "best practices" perspective. A forward thinking cutting edge company like RT cannot afford to be mired down in the murky muck of "end of life" technology. Believe me it is more of a business concern than most of you realize. As hosts and developers it's your responsibility to educate your customers on the values of moving forward. In turn, those customers will advance that education to their users, and so on... if not... they will be left behind. After all that is exactly what the RT folks are doing right now with this decision... they are educating you with the knowledge that their intention is to harness the higher technologies in order to further provide the richest browser experience for you and your customers. That's all I ever hear in the forum is "when are you coming out with this or with that?", and "how can I add this thingy-ma-bob into this RT template?". Well the fact of the matter is with IE6... YOU CAN'T! Now I am sure that the RT team did not make this decision lightly and considered all the ramifications of this action. Trust me... if staying with IE6 was a business decision that would ultimately result in a superior product and a healthier ROI, they would be all over it.
or Second:
As a business entity based in the US, Andy is free to do:
a. what he thinks is best for his customers
b. whatever is the wisest for his investment
c. what makes him happy
d. all of the above.
So here is the Newsflash that I received and understood on the subject from the "horses keyboard".Andy Miller wrote:In case you missed it, we released a statement today on our team blog about RocketTheme no longer supporting IE6 in templates/themes/extensions released after Jan 1st, 2010.
Full details here:
www.rockettheme.com/blog/design/336-ie6-...-life-at-rockettheme
Sounds like the man has made his mind up!
Mark Harris "fireman" - I eat my words regularly. I recommend pepper and a hint of basil!
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- Marty F
- Sr. Rocketeer
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prim wrote:
Speaking of standards, this is pure madness: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
And why doesn't all railroad tracks have the same width? And why don't we all drive on the right side of the road?
What a bloody boring world that would be.
If we all think, live, design and express our incredibly diverse cultures in the same way - well that is called fascism.
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- The Wingman
- Elite Rocketeer
- Posts: 1208
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Marty F wrote:
prim wrote:Speaking of standards, this is pure madness: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_AC_power_plugs_and_sockets
And why doesn't all railroad tracks have the same width? And why don't we all drive on the right side of the road?
What a bloody boring world that would be.
If we all think, live, design and express our incredibly diverse cultures in the same way - well that is called fascism.
I think you are confusing the subject - without standards, as in Metrology standards, not economical, social or blah, blah standards, our world would suck.
Because of "Metrology standards" we were able to create the computer. Individualism allows us to create different types of computers (e.g. PCs & Macs). Those computers allow us to create, as individuals, wonderful things, but without standards - computers wouldn't exist.
Unless you're a purist and believe that hand carved abacuses are computers and all that we need for our computing needs. "Now that would be boring." Also, can you imagine running photoshop on a abacus? Gee, I wonder how the internet would work with abacuses? Would we just pass them around and declare this is individualism? Don't want to be fascist. LMAO - "You can learn a lot from a dummy. So, pay attention to yourself." Quote by me.
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- fireman
- Sr. Rocketeer
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not designing templates for IE6 = Facism?????
Andy what are you trying to do... Take over the world???
I'm in! muahaahaaahaa!!!!!!!!!!!! - I eat my words regularly. I recommend pepper and a hint of basil!
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